VintageBonanza Forum Forum Index VintageBonanza Forum
A Forum for Beechcraft Owners
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

E-225 questions and prop issues for a '50 Bonanza

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    VintageBonanza Forum Forum Index -> TCM Engines
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DKirkpatrick



Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: E-225 questions and prop issues for a '50 Bonanza Reply with quote

Okay, I'm a rookie and this is probably a dumb question. Is the right engine for this airplane an E-225-8? I'm looking at two engines (working on a project...) one has 1156 smoh, no prop strike - $3500 ask. One engine has about 220 smoh, PS, almost no distortion to the crank when measured, same bucks. Buy either? Neither? Should I look for a hydraulic prop setup, or electric? And which has fewest AD issues, etc...and yes, money is an issue... THANKS. ódan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bgwells
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:31 am    Post subject: RE: E-225 questions and prop issues for a '50 Bonanza Reply with quote

For the 1950 Bonnanza, it came with a E-185-8 rated at 196hp take-off, over the next few years, Beechcraft (or Continental engines) started installing the E-185-11 (205hp on take-off), for the 1951 or C35 Bonanza. Then around in 1954 or 1955 optional engine was the E225-8 (225hp on take-off) engine, and was the standard engine on the 1956 G35 Bonanza. Now one thing that Beechcraft did for us, is to modify the Type Certificate Data Sheet to allow putting the later revised or higher horsepower engines into our older airframes without having to obtain an STC to do this. Refer to the TCDS "A-777" here is a link www.vintagebonanza.com/docs/A-777.pdf I have also create a page to quick reference the model airplane against the engines and props and power settings allowable. Again, without having to obtain the STC. If you want to install something like a IO-470-C or -N 250hp or 260hp, and a more readily available prop (and less expensive prop) then that would take a STC for that modification and does require airframe modifications that beef up the engine area and mounts that are the same sa a later Bonanza that had the later model engine as standard. Here is the web page to see what the TCDS allows. Hopefully this will begin to answer your questions. http://www.vintagebonanza.com/Engine_performance_data.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bgwells
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:46 am    Post subject: RE: E-225 questions and prop issues for a '50 Bonanza Reply with quote

I might also add, that in the shop manual for the early Bonanza, there is a page or two that describes the allowable engine swaps as well. A log book entry might reference this data. I also want to mention that the E225-8 engine in the 1950 Bonanza is a very good engine, with the combination of the Beech electric pitch 88" blades. Many have determined that this engine/prop combination is the best performer in any of the airframe of the early 1st generation Bonanza. The E185-11 and 88" prop is what I have had and this engine is good and burns less fuel than the E225-8. I figure up at 5,000 ft. I would burn about 10 gallons an hour and up higher on a trip from Texas to Seattle, I average 8.5 gallons per hours, the E225-8 will burn about 1 or 2 more gallons per hour, but get you a little more speed or allow you to maybe go higher, or take-off slightly more quickly on same weights. If you can get a good deal on a E225-8 go for it, but nothing wrong with a E-185-11 they are efficient and run great. I could just about always count on 150 kts with my E-185-11 and 88" Beech prop. and 10 gph,,, your might get 160 kts. and 12 gph with the E225-8 and 88" prop.

The Hartzell hydraulic is a fine prop too, and if that is what was available, then get it, they are good props for the Bonanza, either the Beech Electric with requires the 250, pull the prop and grease pitch change bearing, or the Hartzell, AD's and service it, they both have their maintenance requirements. If you neglect the pitch change bearing a serviceable replacement will cost around $2,000, so grease is please, no new ones are being built and people let them ruin all the time, it's a shame. If you are buying on, best let a qualified props shop determine the condition or have it inspected with close attention to the bearing and the blade thickness and cord length etc. The prop is either good or it isn't.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bgwells
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:59 am    Post subject: RE: E-225 questions and prop issues for a '50 Bonanza Reply with quote

Engine choice:::: I don't think I would get a engine with a known prop strike and run it, it's a personal choice gamble. Overhauls are going for over $20K and not many very qualified that will still do them. The big problem is even the best mechanic is limited to the parts available and for the E-series, most all of the parts or not available new, such as, no new crankshafts, no new cases, crank case ro accessory case. No new front thrust silver bearings, or the ones the do appear on the market are priced very high. The E-series is a 470 cubic engine and does share some of the components such as the other crank and rod bearings, just not the large front thrust bearing. Anyway, it makes it hard to turn out a overhaul on worn out parts, that may be within "serviceable limits" but just by a small margin. Many of the old crankshafts are already ground .010 under, and they can't be ground any more. It would be hard to overhaul a E-series to "new limits" unless you just happen to have some very low times parts on hand.

For a person that has patience, you will eventually come across a mid time engine and prop combination that will install into your airframe. I just would opt for the prop strike engine.

And yes, many do fly these engine well beyond TBO, get the oil filter on the engine and change that oil often, will probably have to top over haul, but hardly ever do you see the bottom end of the engine give problem if adhere to the RPM limits etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
DKirkpatrick



Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:20 am    Post subject: Thanks for your counsel! Reply with quote

The airframe is really nice on this old girl, just gotta find the right engine and prop. I appreciate your sharing your expertise with me.
dan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tfrymire



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: E-225 questions and prop issues for a '50 Bonanza Reply with quote

DKirkpatrick wrote:
Okay, I'm a rookie and this is probably a dumb question. Is the right engine for this airplane an E-225-8? I'm looking at two engines (working on a project...) one has 1156 smoh, no prop strike - $3500 ask. One engine has about 220 smoh, PS, almost no distortion to the crank when measured, same bucks. Buy either? Neither? Should I look for a hydraulic prop setup, or electric? And which has fewest AD issues, etc...and yes, money is an issue... THANKS. ódan


Yes the E-225-8 is one of the correct engines for this airplane the other is an E-185-8. I'm the owner of a 1949 A35 Bonanza with a Hartzell hydraulic prop. My prop has the MV designation which has no ADs at this time. THe electric prop, as I understand also has no ADs, but it's getting harder to find part for. I'm having no problems with my Hydraulic prop. Hope this helps you out.

Happy Flying,

Terry Frymire N756B
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DKirkpatrick



Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the coaching Terry!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    VintageBonanza Forum Forum Index -> TCM Engines All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group